'I'm not trying to threaten anybody or make anyone feel frightened'

He has interviewed some of the biggest sports stars on the planet, the likes of Tiger Woods, Roger Federer and Ronnie O'Sullivan with millions tuning in to listen to their answers to his questions, but when the boot is on the other foot Rishi Persad is a somewhat reluctant interviewee.

That is not to imply the cheery broadcaster you recognise from the Masters, Wimbledon and Royal Ascot is some sort of alter ego saved for the camera. Pleasantly, what you see is very much what you get with Persad, but he would much rather be directing the spotlight on someone else, rather than being front and centre himself.

That is why there have been times in the past two weeks which rate among the most challenging of his career and why it took a degree of soul-searching before he finally accepted the risk of a second barrage of opposition to his views to set the record straight.

While many believe the 47-year-old was brave, open and honest to push the topic of diversity in racing into the firing line, it has not been welcomed by all and the target for some of the verbal hostility has been as much Persad himself as the topic of conversation.

He wanted to do something wholly positive when he set out to Ascot at the end of last month to speak to fellow broadcaster and good friend Josh Apiafi about diversity in racing for Sky Sports Racing.

Anyone who has watched the entire recording, rather than the mere soundbites on which some observers have based their comments, will have heard about Persad's journey to Britain from Trinidad at the age of 12; the challenges he faced as an 'outsider' at boarding school and a broadcasting career that sneaked up on him almost by accident but has transported him to the biggest sporting events on the planet and into the front rooms of millions of sports fans.

It was also patently clear the huge influence Rishi's late father had on his son's life and career, and there were stories to make you smile as well as wince.

It was an honest conversation between two friends and one in which Persad highlighted his own perspective on a sport he has been involved in for the past 18 years. Not all of his experiences have been positive but that is not to say he was in any way wrong to share them.

He has faced racism; he has also witnessed inequality and run into barriers preventing the sport becoming more inclusive. The conversation was candid but by no means outrageous. Nor was it meant to be.

He left Ascot that afternoon happy he had done something positive; something racing could build on in its pledge to tackle discrimination. But nothing could prepare him for the onslaught that followed.

Rishi Persad: 'I felt misunderstood and that really annoyed and upset me'Credit: Edward Whitaker

"I never said racing is a terrible place to be involved in," says Persad, whose familiar face is this time projecting from a computer screen. "I love racing – I absolutely adore the sport and it got me through tough times as a kid when I was struggling to fit in.

"I feel I owe racing a huge debt of gratitude, so when I did the interview with Josh, I did it with the very noblest of intentions, which were this is a sport that has given me a lot in my life, I think it could be a bit better if it was a bit more diverse and if it was at least open to more diversity.

"That doesn't mean we have to change all the percentages overnight. That's not what I meant. What I meant in the interview was if we eliminate all forms of discrimination from the sport it can only help it. Helping was my intention."

Rather than seeing good intentions, some observers were angry, others disappointed and some just blatantly offensive in their response.

"I was really shocked," Persad says of the level of venom in some of the reaction. "Being on television you get some stick and I've been on the receiving end of some negativity before but I've never been on the receiving end of as much negativity as this and it hurt.

"I felt a whole series of emotions – disappointed, shamed and angry, because I felt people didn't really get what I was saying. I felt misunderstood and that really annoyed and upset me. Being misunderstood and therefore being accused of something that is not really what you feel or believe in, that hurts a lot."

Race and ethnicity have dominated the debate since that initial interview, yet it is discrimination of all kinds – including gender, sexuality and class – which Persad is fighting to eliminate.

Regrettably, that overarching focus, which should be at the heart of any debate on diversity, has been a casualty after certain aspects of what was initially said were misconstrued.

"A lot of people chose to pick up on the things that offended them as opposed to the entirety of what I said," he says. "I've listened back to it again and have asked myself, 'Did I make a complete fool of myself in the way I delivered it?' I don't think I did.

"Josh asked me about pushback and I said, 'Yes, I had felt some pushback, some of it has been unpleasant and some of it, I think, has been unnecessary'. The reason I used the word unnecessary was because I felt that surely if we're creating a Diversity in Racing Steering Group, which is independent of the BHA, we're creating that to do good for racing.

"I didn't realise we were offering a threat to people, I thought we'd come together to try and expand racing's reach so that racing would benefit from it, yet somehow it's been turned on its head and I've started criticising people for not being diverse enough! I never criticised the training ranks, I was only trying to help with something I feel would only benefit them and everybody else in the long run."

Rishi Persad sat in the ITV studio at the racecourseCredit: Edward Whitaker

He continues: "What I was really trying to say was, if we eliminate all discrimination and make the sport more accessible, we're going to provide two things.

"The moral case is for our own wellbeing, in that we can all benefit from being kinder to each other, and the business case is pretty obvious – the more people we can attract to the sport the more money we can bring into the sport and the more people in the sport will benefit from it. What's bad about that?"

Unlike some in his profession, Persad is happy to be seen rather than heard when the microphone is switched off and the camera turns away. He is polite and mild-mannered, and would never let you pass without a "hello" or "how are you?" on the racecourse.

Those who know him best know an ultra decent human being, yet there have been private messages, away from the glare of social media, from individuals he classes as more than just acquaintances – some are prominent figures in the sport – who have questioned his motives. It is these messages that have cut deepest.

"Even talking about it makes me sad," says Persad, slumping closer to his laptop screen. "I was really hurt because it was people I've met, interviewed and shared in some of their most magical moments. It almost makes me feel like none of that was real and it was just done for show.

"I've always tried to be the person that I am off camera, on camera, in my house and outside my house. I try to be that person all the time because it's easier to be yourself.

"I don't understand how they would think that suddenly I've changed my personality to become a headline-seeker. The thing that made me most fearful about doing this interview was that those people would say, 'Well there you go, you've got your headlines'. But ultimately I can't not do the interview because of fear."

Thankfully, the response has not all been negative, with a raft of individuals and organisations reaching out in support. Many are close friends and colleagues but there has also been contact from other racing jurisdictions such as Hong Kong and Australia.

The BHA board publicly condemned the hostility shown to Persad and, along with the Racecourse Association and Horsemen's Group, issued a united pledge to tackle discrimination and accelerate efforts to make racing more open and inclusive to all.

It might not please everyone but Persad has ensured an important debate will not be silenced. More positive still is that others who have faced discrimination in racing, who before now have not had the confidence to speak out, have felt moved to share their experiences with him.

"I had a message from one person who said he's a gay man working in racing and he's never told anyone," says Persad. "That's because he's afraid of people finding out and how he might be judged by it.

"But now that I've said what I've said about discrimination, he feels a little bit more encouraged that things might change. There are people out there who live in fear of being discriminated against. Why can't we make it a bit better for them?"

Most divisive of all from the initial conversation with Apiafi was a short segment of the interview that focused on diversity in stable yards and highlighted a lack of diversity among trainers.

Listen again and there was no call from Persad for white trainers to be replaced by those from BAME backgrounds, yet he was criticised by some as if that had been his statement.

Rishi Persad with ITV colleagues Francesca Cumani and Jason WeaverCredit: Alan Crowhurst

"I was responding to a question that Josh asked me about pushback on diversity," he clarifies. "I said a couple of trainers had come up to me on the racecourse and said their workforce is all from an ethnic minority. My response to that was that's not diversity.

"Then I said what about the training grounds and that there's not much diversity in there. Why is that, was the question I asked. Then people immediately assume, because I am a person of colour and because I have spoken about racism, that I focus on racism specifically. I was speaking about discrimination of all kinds.

"I'm not saying stable staff want to come through and become trainers but if they do, is it something they can do? If they want to do that, would they feel comfortable in taking that path? It's about creating an environment where there's something in place where you can do it if you want to."

The idea of being at the epicentre of this debate is akin to carrying top weight on desperate ground in the Welsh National for Persad, who admits he likes an easy life with his partner Holly and nine-year-old daughter Evie in Surrey.

Even the slightest suggestion he could be seen as a role model ends with his head resting in his hands. That is simply not him, yet he is willing to step way outside his comfort zone for something he feels so strongly about.

"I'm not trying to threaten anybody or make anyone feel frightened, all I'm saying is that we could be a bit better and do better," he says. "Ultimately the place where we want to be at is where there is no discrimination and we can all feel comfortable that what we achieve in life is merit-based. That's what I truly believe in.

"Often I think, if my daughter was in my position, trying to go through the career that I've had and occasionally meeting the odd challenges I've faced, and if I'd had the opportunity to remove those sorts of challenges and I didn't do anything about helping that situation, how would I feel about that?

"Well, I'd be disappointed at the end of my time on this earth. It's not just for my daughter – it's for everybody's children."

There is no quick fix that will take racing or wider society to the utopia Persad is striving for, but he can see a path racing can take, albeit it is a long and challenging one that is going to need the collective efforts of a great deal of people to overcome.

The Diversity in Racing Steering Group, of which he is a member, is a small but significant part of the journey and, with the results of a BHA-commissioned audit into inequality in racing pending, there will soon be data to support the anecdotal evidence that change is needed. Before that, Persad is urging those individuals whose voices travel furthest in the sport to throw their weight behind the movement.

He says: "If the likes of John Gosden, William Haggas, AP McCoy, Paul Nicholls or Nicky Henderson came out and said they're against discrimination, who is going to tell them there's no problem with discrimination? No one.

"Maybe they don't feel moved strongly enough to come out and say something yet but I truly believe racing needs to be led by people with far more influence than someone like me.

"What I would love is to ask people who feel the same way, whoever you are, to reach out and say, 'I support you and stand against discrimination'. It's going to require a great deal of courage but if there are like-minded people willing to stand together, then you can withstand the bullying."

Apart from cricket, nothing comes close to laying a glove on racing for Persad, so to think he would ever try to do anything to unsettle the sport he loves is balderdash. What he wants is to give something back and if he can help bring down any walls of discrimination, there is no bigger gift as far as he is concerned.

"What I would love is for people to be allowed to be who they are without fear and judgement," he says. "That is not just for racing, that is across the board on all walks of life.

"Can't we just be nicer to everybody and allow everybody to be who they are regardless of race, gender or whatever it is? That's a message I'm happy and proud to stand up next to for the rest of my days."

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